Love Is....Multiculturalism!
>> Wednesday, August 08, 2007 –
Khalistan,
Nav Dhanda,
Omar Ha-Redeye,
Sikh,
Tariq Fatah,
Terry Milewski
Ah the joys of Multiculturalism can't you just feel the Love?
Seems members of this Facebook Sikh Community (note you will need a Facebook login), are incensed at the CBC & Terry Milewski for a piece he did on Sikh Extremism:
"Families of the Air India victims began complaining about politicians' association with Sikh extremists long before the 2007 Surrey Vaisakhi parade. In October 2006, Perviz Madon, whose husband, Sam, died in the Air India bombing, testified at John Major's judicial inquiry into the tragedy.
"We need to stop our politicians from attending those kind of events," she said. "I'm sorry, I know it's about your votes, but that's dirty business. You don't want to be associated with a group that is linked to terrorism. You don't want those kind of votes.… Canada is becoming a haven for criminals. It's a beautiful country. It's a great country, you know. We're just losing it, we're losing the grip on it. Something has to change."
The examples above are defended as "Art" as defined by forum creator Nav Dhanda .
NB: Sikh members of this community have asked that the pictures be removed because they don't want to be portrayed as well..."extremists".
Not all members feel this way however. Referencing Terry:
Anshdeep Singh (New York, NY) wrote at 11:16am on July 27th, 2007
if i get a chance.. i will have this white trash choke on his own blood some day..
The WSO (World Sikh Organization) has launched a lawsuit against the CBC, Terry Milewski & Tarek Fatah: WSO HAS LAUNCHED A $160 MILLION LAWSUIT AGAINST CBC, TAREK FATAH AND UJJAL DOSANJH. THE CBC IS "STANDING BEHIND ITS STORY" (meaning that the CBC is unapologetic about how we were all portrayed as terrorists and as an ethically and morally corrupt collection of people). Please continue to email the people below if you haven't already. If you already have, please email again expressing support for the WSO and tell the CBC how ashamed you are that they would continue so stubbornly.
Tarek Fatah gets a "Fan Club" all his own, evidently the Muslims don't like Tarek because they claim he does not represent "Progressive" Muslims hmmmm, and the Sikhs don't like him because of the CBC Report.
Both this Muslim site and the Sikh site share members & "inspiration".
Odd bedfellows? Perhaps not. (NB. Tarek is referred to as Voldemort) :
THE POWER OF SOCIAL SANCTION: "Tariq Fateh" is a non-entity to me
They are a media savvy bunch and have been instructed to go easy on the "Death Threats" lest they draw unwanted scrutiny;)
ALSO: Please remember that, as difficult as Voldemort makes it to remain non-violent, we must stick to these rules... The death threats against him by Islamists - dubious though they may be - serve his interests and not Muslim-Canadian interests, as Voldemort is a master of self-promotion. *sigh* If only he would use his powers for good and not evil!
Hmm good thing the Fraser Institute came out with this report- how timely!
"Bolan, who has received several death threats resulting from her writings on Air India and Sikh extremism, said Sikh terrorism has its roots in the Khalistan movement, the quest for a separate, independent Sikh state. She said the movement was hijacked in the 1980s by individuals who used intimidation and fear to dominate the Sikh immigrant community in Canada. The result was a terrorist movement that was primarily based in Canada."
Oh Canada..........we are reaping the harvest of Multiculturalism, imported hates & the reduction of citizenship to the status of a convenient mailing address.
See the Kaptaan's response- we had a good and lively debate.
But the you-tube was still up the last time I looked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hycDaez2gco
Please visit our blog to see what real-life, foaming -at-the-mouth Delhi '84 surviving Canadian Khalistan supporters are like.
http://roadtokhalistan.blogspot.com/
I will make a point to do so Mai;)
Mai Mai Mai - you weren't wrong about that "foaming at the mouth" stuff at all;) Perhaps you should have left this at home when you emigrated.
Have felt weird about the Sikh community since the assasination of Indira Gandhi. In Canada, the appropriate response to the murder of world leaders, no matter how much you hate them, is not handing out candies and dancing in the streets.
Please leave your ethnic hatreds at "home".
Kaptaan said...
1. I am against this pseudo multi culti ism as well. People should come straight out and call it what it is - a project to eliminate the predominance of the Anglo-Saxon culture and values under the guise of the promotion of minority culture and relativism.
2. As for a few Sikhs who get overly aggressive when writing from behind the computer screen - that's hardly only the exclusive domain of Sikhs and its quite disingenuous to claim that it is. I'm sure you'll find a multitude of global warming advocates and enviro lefties doing the same in support of their pet causes.
3. The WSO launching a lawsuit, to defend itself against the allegations made in the CBC documentary, is as Canadian as Canadian gets, unless Sikhs and Sikh organizations are no longer allowed to exercise their legal rights in Canada (or are somehow engaging in a sinister activity if they do).
4. If a Jesus Christ figurine can be put into a liquid combo of blood and urine and labeled "piss Christ", you'd think that making a picture of Terry Milewski out as a Vampire or blood sucker, would be covered by the same extension of the term "Art", unless you hold Terry up as some unassailable messiah or prophet perhaps?
5. If non-Sikh Canadians have the right to free expression and can agitate against Communism, Nazism, the USA, etc... and Canadians are demonstrating against China for a free Tibet, then WHY shouldn't CANADIAN Sikhs and supporters of HUMAN RIGHTS be free to express a desire to see the creation of Khalistan or any other state?
6. SIKHS are CANADIAN and are here to stay - like it or lump it. It's time you figured this out instead of yammering on about how they should leave this that or the other at "home". Home is Canada (for CANADIAN Sikhs), not anywhere else. Canada IS our homeland, it's one country where we are free to worship as we choose, say what we think, and live free (except the confiscatory taxes and general erosion of individual rights of course) without the threat of state-sanctioned and delivered death, torture or harassment.
You are a mass of contradictions Kaptaan.
1) On Multicult we agree
2) On aggressive Sikhs hiding behind computer screens - I do not see how I can be disingenuous when I made no such claim that this practice was exclusive to Sikhs.
3) On the WSO lawsuit - I agree it has become Canadian to sue because someone "Hurt your feelings". We are burdened by PC Nonsense & Multicult.
4) Piss Christ as Art? What nonsense. You are really stretching here. Piss Christ is simply part of the same attack on Western values and civilization that MultiCult and it's sister plague Moral Relativism represent. Terry is no prophet, the pictures merely evidence Sikh extremism.
5) WHY shouldn't CANADIAN Sikhs and supporters of HUMAN RIGHTS be free to express a desire to see the creation of Khalistan or any other state? I agree until you start blowing up airliners that is.
6) Home for Sikhs would appear to be the future Khalistan you advocate. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining Kaptaan- Canada is merely an address of convenience.
Cat Fur,
To be human is to be a mass of contradictions.
1) At least we have some common ground.
2) My point is that Sikhs aren't the only ones who post things that they aren't likely to do in actual reality. It's common parlance to vent in aggressive language when perturbed and it only gets amplified when you read it on a computer screen and aren't there to actually hear/ see the person who wrote it. My take was that you implied that Sikhs are engaging in extremist vitriol vis-a-vis your commentary. You state that somehow the group is engaged in some "media savvy" dissembling by wanting the Terry pics removed and not having members make any "death threats". Is it so hard to believe that a majority of Sikhs don't support "death threats" and violent reactions?
3) The WSO suit is about protecting the WSO's reputation which they feel has been harmed by the CBC documentary. I'm sure if someone slandered or libeled the CBC, that they would defend their brand and reputation against such assaults. So it's not about "hurt feelings".
4) re-read my comment, if society is willing to allow "piss christ" as art, then why isn't the pic of Terry afforded the same license? I personally don't believe there is any redeeming value in "piss christ", but apparently the NYT covered it as "art".
5) Sikhs haven't "blown up airliners" as you suggest. Sikhs have condemned anyone who engages in this kind of activity many,many times and have been consistent in this. There is NO religious justification or Sikh school of thought that supports any other conclusion. Perhaps you should read the book "Soft Target" by a couple of Globe and Mail journalists for something other than the usual pablum.
6) HOME for CANADIAN Sikhs IS and ALWAYS will BE CANADA. Just as Irish-Canadians aspired to have an Irish homeland, so too can Sikhs aspire to have a Sikh homeland. Whether Irish-Canadians call Ireland home, is a different story, but I'm sure they are content just the same knowing that it's there. No one questions the loyalty of Irish-Canadians (despite hearing that they hold a parade or two in Canada celebrating their Irishness), and no one should question the loyalty of Sikh-Canadians either.
1)I'm certain we do have common ground Kaptaan- we all bleed red.
2) My "media savvy" comment is directed at the Tarek Fateh site, not the Sikh site. I was careful to be fair and point out that Sikh members have themselves complained about the pictures. I also agree that over the top invective is found across the spectrum and in fact I employ it myself. Do note that at no time have I called for the pictures to be removed nor do I personally consider them to be "over the top". However they make great eye candy wouldn't you agree?
3) The WSO lawsuit is about hurt feelings and also about attempting to stifle free speech. There exists much more effective ways to handle this matter than attempting to censor the press.
4) See my comments on the Terry Pictures in 2)
5) Who then planted the bombs? Quakers? No one has suggested that the Sikh community condones terrorism as an article of faith.
6) It is one thing to recognize your heritage, another entirely to advocate for the establishment of a homeland through violence as some members of the Sikh community do. I could care less whether the perpetrators were Irish, Palestinian or from Mars- do not import your domestic poltics here.
1)I'm glad to read that you acknowledge we are both human.
2) Thanks for the clarification - "My "media savvy" comment is directed at the Tarek Fateh site, not the Sikh site."
and for this, "I was careful to be fair and point out that Sikh members have themselves complained about the pictures. I also agree that over the top invective is found across the spectrum and in fact I employ it myself."
and yes, I, "do note" that at no time have you called for the pictures to be removed.
I do agree that they add a certain visual presence.
3) We disagree on the WSO lawsuit, but perhaps you can elaborate on more effective methods to resuscitate their reputation.
4) comments seen.
5) I'm glad you agree that, "No one has suggested that the Sikh community condones terrorism as an article of faith."
As for who planted the bombs, the easy way out is to solely pin the blame on individuals who call themselves Sikhs. The more challenging route is to examine the alternative paradigms. See my comment about reading, "Soft Target", by the G n' M journalists.
6) I'm glad that you acknowledge, only "some members of the Sikh community" support violence in establishing Khalistan.
As for domestic politics, Canadian Sikhs have every right as you acknowledged above, (see point 5) in response to my comment, to "express a desire to see the creation of Khalistan or any other state" in a peaceful manner.
Thank you.
Thank you Kaptaan, your comments are appreciated.
As for resuscitating the reputation of the WSO - The aggressive & petty lawsuit, the attempt to censor the press, is the real damage done to their reputation. For one I do not believe that the Sikh community has been damaged by the CBC expose, my hope is that you will be the better for it. May I suggest you read "Loss of Faith" by Kim Bolan?
http://www.communityaffairs.ubc.ca/talkofthetown/2005/fall/bolan.html
"Loss of Faith" link again:
http://www.tiny.cc/cynEm
While we are on the topic of suggested reading,
1. "Fighting for Faith and Nation", by Cynthia Keppley Mahmood
http://www.amazon.ca/Fighting-Nation-Cynthia-Keppley-Mahmood/dp/0812215923
2. "Soft Target : The real story behind the Air India disaster", by Zuhair Kashmeri and Brian McAndrew
http://www.amazon.ca/Soft-Target-behind-disaster-Second/dp/1550289047/ref=sr_1_7/701-7790383-6597905?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186683732&sr=1-7
FYI, I was waiting for your response to my comment at Singh On The World
My response remains:
My post is about the faults of Multiculturalism and how political correctness etc have sheltered, even encouraged Terrorist supporters.
Nobody is arguing that Sikhs don't have a place in Canada. Of course they do. Welcome to the party. Canada has even been accomodating of Sikh traditions it found strange, or might have found strange if Canadians hadn't fought beside our Sikh allies in WW2. And thus there are turbans in the RCMP and ceremonial daggers carried into Canadian schools. Of course, Canadian ways do take some getting used to, and one of those ways is not showing jubilation at the murder of others. I don't remember Irish Canadians dancing in the street and handing out candies when the IRA blew up Lord Mountbatten, but if they did, they got some very mean looks from other Canadians.
The quickest way an ethnic group--any ethnic group--can separate themselves from other Canadians is by celebrating and advocating the murder of others. Another is by complaining that THEIR group has it harder than any other, a tough claim in a country with so many ethnic groups.
Well said Anon.
"Just as Irish-Canadians aspired to have an Irish homeland, so too can Sikhs aspire to have a Sikh homeland."
My ancestors originaly came from Ireland but I don't aspire for any Irish homeland. I don't care what Ireland does. Canada is my homeland. I don't call myself and Irish-Canadian, just a Canadian. That is the difference.
Orig. Anonymous here. The commentator has got his Irish mixed up anyway. The Irish in Canada were by and large loyal to the Queen (heard of Darcy McGee--post immigration? He gave up his IRA affiliation when he got here, and he was killed for that) and then the Kings of England. St. Basil's Roman Catholic Church, the oldest Catholic Church and a real center of Irish-Torontonian life was a major recruiting center during Boer War. It was the Irish AMERICANS who were so hipped on an Irish homeland that they invaded Canada (the Fenian raids) to put pressure on Britain on behalf of Ireland. So it's both a mistaken and unfortunate comparison, isn't it? Canada already knows to its cost what disgruntled immigrants will do for "the old country"--even though those disgruntled immigrants lived in the USA. So I'll take your patriotism and raise you the Fenian Raids, Kaptaan. Read a little Canadian history, why don't you? That said, again Sikhs were our allies in the 2nd WW and are no doubt are as fine citizens of Canada as they were subjects of the British Empire.
Thanks for clearin that up for us Anon- I think;)
BCF,
my last comment didn't seem to make it onto your site, any reason for that?
In case it doesn't show up, for the Irish-Canadian commentors, behold:
" 3 I.R.A. Supporters Deported To Canada by U.S. Officials
THE NEW YORK TIMES
Published: February 20, 1982
Three of the five Irish Republican Army supporters arrested at Niagara Falls, N.Y., on Feb. 6 for illegally entering the United States were deported to Canada late Friday by the Immigration and Naturalization Service without a hearing, the agency said.
The three, who are former residents of Belfast and who have landed immigrant status in Canada, are William O'Neill, 29 years old, James Kelly, 41, and William Gilroy, 36. They had been charged with entering the United States to obtain guns for the I.R.A."
I've met a number of Irish-Canadians and know for a fact that they do care about Ireland and whether it is free or not, and not to mention they've always been supportive of Sikhs. Udham Singh a Sikh fought alongside the Irish to for the freedom of Ireland, and some Irish if not all do recognize the contributions of such men.
What is your point Kaptaan? I don't approve of their actions either. The emigrated from Ireland and took their vilolent cause with them. If individuals of any nationality are using Canada as a base of operations they should be dealt with as criminals.
PS. Beats me why the previous comment did not make it in, I have been away all day.
I am trying to imagine a Canada that didn't have any Irish in it until 1983. More Canadian history: a massive wave of Irish hit these underpopulated shores in the 1840s. If they knew any Gaelic, their children sure didn't. They kept their religion and assimilated into either French Canadian or English Canadian society. (Notice that many French-Canadians, e.g. Claude Ryan, have Irish surnames.) When Irish immigration was at its height, emigrants would celebrate their funerals before they left because they knew it was unlikely that they would ever come back to Ireland.
Fundraising for the IRA was mostly an Irish-American activity, not an Irish-Canadian activity. Irish-Canadians, for some reason, mostly settled down(as did Thomas D'Arcy McGee)and were loyal subjects of the British Crown. Irish-Canadians fought for Empire, Queen/King and Canada through the Boer War, WWI, WW2 and the Korean War. Hopefully the Sikh community will be spared the opportunity to prove their love for Canada in the same fashion.
In this new era of airplanes and instant telecommunications, it is no wonder that those recently arrived Irish you mention,like some other recently arrived immigrants,used Canada as a handy-dandy spot to carry out their terrorist/nationalist activities. The vast majority of Irish-Canadians, who make up a significant percentage of the Canadian population (and whose ancestors came from Ireland more than a generation, if not a century, ago)have absolutely nothing to do with the IRA. I am with Blazing Cat Fur on this one--immigrants have no business carrying out their wars, terrorist operations, nationalist fantasies and what have you--on Canadian shores, no matter what their country of origin.
If you are suggesting that the IRA is sympathetic with Sikh nationalism, that is hardly a great advertisement for Sikh nationalism.
Kaptaan seems to construe legitimate criticism of Sikh Extremism as an attack on Sikh culture hence his need to insist on alternative accounts of the Air India terrorist bombing and his persistent attempts to frame this criticism as a bigoted attack against Sikhs.
No BCF, you're wrong when you write - "Kaptaan seems to construe legitimate criticism of Sikh Extremism as an attack on Sikh culture" - the truth is that I simply don't believe that anyone has the right to tell anyone what they can and can't believe in, or what they can or can't demonstrate about in Canada.
Don't tell immigrants or natural-born Canadians to leave their 'problems' at 'home' before coming to Canada. That's the thinking I take exception to in this case and with your comments to Mai and me.
I don't believe people should engage in extremism in Canada either, whether it's Sikhs or Irish or whomever.
BTW, most Irish-Canadians I've met arrived in Canada in the last 30 odd years.
Well, then you get yourself down to the library and pick up a Canadian history book, Kaptaan, and check my claims. While you're at it, check the census for ethnicity. The numbers are skewed at bit because more and more Canadians (especially "old" Canadians, which includes people of famine-Irish descent) are refusing to list their ethnicity and just check "Canadian."
anonymous, i don't doubt that a majority of irish-canadians arrived prior to the last 30 years. I'm just saying that the Irish-Canadians, or their family, I'VE met have for the most part arrived in the last 30 or so years.
If the ones who arrived prior to the 70's identify as just Canadian, well that's their CHOICE. Just don't try and deny me a similar choice or tell me that I am somehow a 'bad' Canadian for not submersing my identity in a way similar to YOU.
BCF, I noticed that at the bottom of this post you have listed 3 links to your post. I've created one but you seem to not want to list it? Any reason why? I would think that you'd want people to get both sides or all sides of this debate.
Kaptaan I do not have any control over what gets listed there, sometimes they all show up, sometimes they disappear, it is not my doing.
I came across this post through a technorati tag that appears to have absolutely no (or very little) relevance to the content of the post, and at best appears to be potentially libelous.
You obviously don\'t understand the plight of the Sikh people, and the issues we have had to face.
There is nothing wrong with a people wanting to have their own country.
You wouldn\'t treat Croats the same way, or the Taiwanese, or people in Papau New Guinea.
I think you\'re just racist towards Sikhs.
I would treat anyone who makes death threats equally, with absolute contempt.
This is hillarious.
Noboy here gave you a death threat.
No need to, you're already miserable and in pain.
PK as it is evident you can't read I will type this very slowly, the death threats I spoke of were made against Tarke Fatah. I have never said they were against me. However now that I am being stalked by you and your crazed sikh extemist brethren I may have to take appropriate measures.
What measures would that be?
You\'re threatening people now.
Wait...
Who exactly threatened whom. Say it for ME again, slowly. Even slower if you have to.
Tell me specifically.
And please don\'t use broad stereotypical statements like the Sikh Facebook community.
Tell me exactly who it was please.
So long wanker;) Good luck with the remedial reading class.
BCF, I noticed that at the bottom of this post you have listed 3 links to your post. I've created one but you seem to not want to list it? Any reason why? I would think that you'd want people to get both sides or all sides of this debate.
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